Ha ha, y’all saw this one coming:
Meanwhile, last night I learned that Mitt Romney’s father was on welfare as a child. Here his mom explains:
That is so like modern Republicans, to disparage the very social programs that helped their own families get ahead. Remember (not) Joe the (not) Plumber saying how his family accepted welfare not once but twice? And Sarah Palin saying how her family used Canadian healthcare when she was a kid? Yet now they slam the very taxpayer-funded programs that kept them out of poverty.
But no, it’s worse than that: they’re disparaging the people who use these programs. People just like themselves. Now they are cheats, leeches, mooches, and bums. They can’t get that log out of their own eye, can they? Because of some warped psychology that tells them accepting help breeds dependence. Really? Did it for their families? Maybe that only applies to “some” folks (cough*cough*brownpeople*cough*cough).
Did you know we’re actually winning the war on poverty? Thanks to social programs? It’s true.
I’m kinda busy today so this might have to suffice for cogent political analysis today. Sorry.
[UPDATE]:
By the way, if you want a glimpse of how Mitt Romney will run the U.S. economy, look at how he runs his campaign:
Romney Campaign $11M in Debt
They just can’t help themselves, can they?
Southern Beale 
SB,
It would be fairer to say that we are ‘not losing’ the war on poverty. Increasing the amount of money spent on the poor will lift more people out of poverty. Good. Reducing the number of people who live in poverty is a good thing.
But that is not the same thing as ‘winning’ the war on poverty. Winning means helping more people move out of poverty and take responsibility for their lives. That means jobs and paying taxes, not relying on others to provide for you.
Now this requires a mix of federal, state, local and community investments. Moving people off welfare is a complex and expensive undertaking that includes providing education, job training and a range of other supports.
But in the long run, the only victory over poverty that benefits all of society is moving those welfare recipients who can be self-sufficient off the rolls.
And, by the way, the article mentions the contributions for Social Security to alleviating poverty without referencing the impact of that policy on the stability of Social Security. Not only does the use of SS funds for this purpose result in higher SS taxes for everyone including the working poor and the near-poor but it reminds us that SS is no longer an insurance program but a welfare program.
You didn’t read the article, did you?
That’s a nice myth your side of the aisle likes to promote but the reality is, poor people DO pay taxes and DO have jobs. The Earned Income Tax Credit referred to in the story is for the working poor. The whole “Obama killed welfare to work” was a lie. Really offensive how Republicans keep promoting this idea that the poor are just sitting back in the Barcalounger as the welfare checks roll in, bleeding the nation dry. You have no fucking clue what you’re talking about.
And your SS point is completely asinine. Poor people taking Social Security benefits weakens the system? Really? How do you figure? Oh I forgot, let’s blame the poor for EVERYTHING that’s wrong with this country because they’re so powerful and influential. It’s that poor person’s lobby getting all the laws passed! That compassionate conservatism, it always was a lie. Thanks for proving it, over and over again.
How about rich assholes like Thurston Howell Romney only paying SS on the first $100,000 of their income? That doesn’t weaken the system? Why not raise it to $250,000? That’s peanuts to Thurston Howell Romney. Oh I forgot, that’s socialism! And anyway, he pays to the Mormon Church, his “charity.” Which spends all of its money on creating missionaries to make more Mormons, or defeating marriage equality legislation in California. Who is going to take care of the poor? Clearly not your side.
SB,
I did read the article. Did you read my comments before responding?
“Really offensive how Republicans keep promoting this idea that the poor are just sitting back in the Barcalounger as the welfare checks roll in, bleeding the nation dry.”
I never said any of that. I spent six years working on welfare policy in TN, I know that there are many people who are in poverty who work very hard. And I know how many mothers and fathers want to be self-sufficient because they know it will help their children.
Your view does a real disservice to the real issue. The majority of people on welfare who could be independent really want to work. But the problems resulting from inter-generational poverty present major barriers. At DHS we used to regularly see people who want to work but lack basic work skills like showing up on time or being responsible for solving simple problems and so on.
This isn’t about laziness, it is about building a network that helps people succeed.
“Poor people taking Social Security benefits weakens the system?”
What funds SS? Payroll taxes. The original idea was that SS would be retirement insurance. The reason that the federal government tapped SS reserves to provide those benefits was to prevent looking like taxes were being raised. That money has to be replaced.
I never said that I opposed the programs funded through SS, just that I opposed using SS funds for them. And, if you bothered to read all my post, you will have noticed that I support investments in programs to help those welfare recipients who can move to independence to do so, You didn’t see me say that we should cut any programs. I even support expansion of the EITC. As part of welfare reform back in the 1990s, I floated the idea of Tennessee adopting a version of it to offset the impact of the sales tax for low wage workers.
“That doesn’t weaken the system? Why not raise it to $250,000?”
1) People who started paying into Social Security in the last decade or so will not get out anything like they put in. Raising the cap would only increase the extent to which SS stops being a benefit to future recipients.
2) Raising the cap punishes employers for paying higher wages. Forget the ultra wealthy and think about how many regular people make $100,000 to $250,000. This covers a wide range of jobs and some small business owners. You would be increasing the cost to them of raising wages. And in the case of the self-employed, the increase would be the full 13%. That is pretty heavy taxation for rewarding employees or for being successful.
3) If you want to do that, then let’s means test SS and fund it out of general revenues. That would save billions in payments to the rich and allow for higher benefits for the neediest retirees.
“Who is going to take care of the poor? Clearly not your side.”
Helping people to remain on welfare is not being on their side. That is the height of elitism. I want people who can be self-sufficient to have that opportunity. For those who cannot, then we need to have programs in place to help them. But just making poverty and dependence more tolerable is not a victory for those who can achieve more.
So that’s why it sucks.
You definitely alluded to that those-lazy-poors attitude. C’mon Mark, what else does it mean when you talk about people “relying on others to provide for you”? Enough with the BS. In fact, your comment is almost verbatim what Ryan said in New Hampshire this morning:
Ah yes, higher take home pay would be nice. Why is Ryan and everyone else on the right doing what they can to make sure wage stagnation enters it’s — what, 40th? 50th — year??
You know it’s almost funny how Ryan and everyone else on the right keeps referring to the “Obama economy” and how more people are on welfare now. Yeah maybe that’s because of the SHIT HOLE Bush & Co. dragged it into! So sorry we couldn’t fix the giant fucking mess you people made in 2 years. It’s like they keep thinking there wasn’t a global economic collapse 2 years ago that the entire world is still struggling to pull out of. It’s like they want everyone to think all of this happened in a fucking void or something.
But that’s no surprise, since all through the Bush years they were in deep denial but every problem we raised. Hey there’s a huge debt looming over there, maybe another round of tax cuts isn’t a great idea! “Oh, shut up libtard, you’re just a tax-and-spend liberal.” Hey, maybe we shouldn’t try to occupy a country with no clear mission and try to make false associations between the religious fanatics who attacked us on 9/11 and a secular dictator who happens to sit on the Middle East’s largest supply of untapped oil? “Shut up libtard, you’re a blame-America-firster.” Hey there’s this thing called big shitpile over here, it’s mortgage-backed securities and it’s about implode and when it does the whole bubble economy is going to burst, maybe we should do something about it, “Shut up libtard, why do you hate capitalism?”
Seriously, Mark. NO ONE is helping people “remain on welfare.” NO ONE. That’s a ridiculous fantasy. This cavalier attitude that you and your ilk express that helping someone during the worst fucking economy in over a generation is somehow coddling them is so condescending. And it’s so wrong.
Which is why “you people” should never be let near the reins of power ever again.
MARK: I don’t quite get your point…I think your logic is off here. How is raising the cap ‘”punishing employers for raising wages???” It is NOT hurting him any…the money would be coming out of the employees pay check..nothing from him at all. MOST small business owners, such as we were, were the types of corps (S, I think) the include THEIR wages and income with the business’s. One is based on the other.
The Repubs LOVE to spew this “hurt small business owners crap”…and it really doesn’t……..of course their idea of a small business is 2 million dollars a year, overseas business, and 200 employees, NOT the mom-and-pop with 1 or 2 employees working out of a store front or their garage!!!!
And I think you DO NOT HAVE A CLUE how ‘tolerable and convenient” poverty is!!!!!! Try putting all your savings, pensions, equity in your house, a small business loan, working 10 hours a day, weekends..even sleeping at the studio..and having it not last. Then try finding employment in the field you’ve been in 40 years,,,or any for that matter. Social security looks pretty good when you’re trying to rebuild your life!!! Elitist, my butt. the ignorance of the Right makes me puke sometimes.
Republicans love to spout BS about helping “small businesses” yet everything they do HURTS them. How many mom-and-pop grocery stores and hardware stores and stationery stores are out of business now thanks to mega stores like Wal-Mart, Bain-owned Staples, and Home Depot — all big Republican donors, or course.
But yeah let’s give lip service to “small businesses,” will Republicans stick a shiv in their kidney.
SB,
“So that’s why it sucks.”
Actually Families First was considered a model for welfare reform. Governor Sundquist went to great pains to ensure major investments in child care and other supports were available. The local councils in each county often did amazing work providing services and even mentoring to participants.
Clearly you know nothing of welfare reform in TN.
“relying on others to provide for you”?
One of my jobs at ECD was writing the Commissioners’ speeches. Over 5 years I got to read literally hundreds of letters from women who were participating in Families First. The stories from women who were proud to have jobs and be independent were amazing. Particularly impressive were the letters from women who were told by their children about how proud of them the children were. We had no small number of letters talking about how children were doing better in school because they now spent time studying with their parents.
What is really delightful is how you can attribute every known Republican belief with greed and corruption but take the position that no measurable percentage of people on welfare like letting others take care of them.
More importantly, I suggest that you underestimate the impact of poverty over multiple generations. I am not suggesting moral failure but simply a lack of positive role models. Look at what we spend on schools in cities like New York or LA or DC. But all that money is no substitute for the family and neighborhood conditions in which those children live. The same is true of parts of Eastern KY and Eastern TN and other rural areas.
You have never seen me talk about the ‘Obama Economy.’ It is a misleading idea. Our economic problems are much deeper and are he result of mistakes made by businesses, governments and even individual consumers.
“NO ONE is helping people “remain on welfare.”
More proof that you do not know the issues involved. Many of our welfare problems were anticipated by Daniel Patrick Moynihan in the early 1960s. While DPM focused on the black family, his analysis turned out to be equally applicable to white families too. Government created disincentives for families to stay together so families took the incentives and separated.
Every night half the children under 18 in America go to sleep with one or fewer biological parents in their homes. We have children having children. The evidence that Moynihan was right has been clear for decades. But efforts at welfare reform were regularly killed by people who refuse to admit that their ideas have proven wrong. So please don’t tell me that there aren’t people helping to keep others on welfare. They may be doing it with good intentions but the result is the same.
I know plenty because I work with people who actually need to USE these programs, and I can tell you they don’t function, they suck and they make the lives of the working poor even more miserable. Try dealing with MAC just once.
You reformed welfare and yet our church office is filled with WORKING people who need money to keep from being evicted. When reform is just synonymous with “cut people off from the safety net,” you’ve failed.
I do? Where do I do this? I assign a substantial part of the blame to Republican stupidity and fanciful belief in ridiculous fairy tales like “trickle down economics,” and “tax cuts create jobs,” and “free market ponies” and other BS nonsense. Another fairy tale? The social safety net creates dependency. That’s a great one. You never once addressed the two examples I gave in this post — Mitt Romney’s own father and Not Joe The Not Plumber — which shows that’s NOT true.
Just fuck off, Mark.
“How is raising the cap ‘”punishing employers for raising wages???”
Judi,
If you raise the cap on workers’ wages subject to SS taxes, you also raise the tax on the employers’ share. Remember that employers pay 1/2 of the SS tax. 6% comes from the employee’s wages and 6% from the employer.
So raising the cap would punish employers for rewarding workers with higher wages.
Now that would not hurt Romney or the NFL owners but it would be a burden to lots of employers. I think if you look, it would hit more than a few unionized workers in high tech and similar professions too.
They would just take it out of what they contribute to pensions/401(k) and other benefits. Really I don’t see this as “punishing” anyone. What’s “punishing” is having the social security trust fund raided by a succession of Republican presidents (and Clinton) to pay for pet wars and tax cuts for rich people. Those same rich people who apparently would be “punished” if they were asked to pay just a teensy bit more to solidify the program they ruined. Disaster capitalism, ain’t it awesome.
Just one final point, it has been 10 years since Sundquist was Governor. Before you blame what we accomplished, you should look at the 8 years of Governor Bredesen. He had no interest in welfare reform {and we know how you on the left felt about his view of the poor as demonstrated by his stewardship of TennCare}.
So don’t blame what we did for what was done under Bredesen. That is unworthy of you.
Also I believe the use of SS reserves to cover government operating expenses began under LBJ.
Yes well our budget was in a bit of a mess thanks to Sundquist. Throwing 200,000 off TennCare actually increased state costs, imagine that. And then he really screwed the pooch on a state income tax, which means we now have one of the highest sales taxes in the nation — one of the most regressive taxes there is. An income tax is progressive but a sales tax hurts the poor the worst. We’re such good Christians in this state we even tax FOOD!!! Just as Jesus did!
Poor people don’t pay taxes? Riiiight. Only on stuff no one needs like, y’know, food.
Again, fuck off, Mark. You and your free market unicorns. Take that clown Arthur Laffer with you. You know, your hero Augustus Reagan’s great policy wonk. What a laugh that is.
This is the thing that pisses me off. We’ve had 30 years of hearing Mark-style bullshit, taxes are lower than they’ve ever been in the modern era, corporate profits are WAY up, CEO salaries are WAY up, stock market is at record highs and MOST OF US ARE SUCKING. So clearly the GOP approach of lowering taxes, destroying unions, “if the upper tier does well everyone does,” DOES. NOT. WORK. Not for anyone but the Mitt Romney’s of the world.
Where did I say any of that?
You keep blaming me for things that other people say. I am the Republican than wants to break up the big banks, split up the big oil companies {and prohibit them from participating in other areas of energy research}. I think that stock options ought to have to be paid out over 20 years so that corporate decisions must look to the long term.
Because despite all the things you purport to support, when push comes to shove you ALWAYS come back down on the side of the same ol’ same ol’. it’s always cut taxes. Deregulate. Free markets. Shiny sparkly. Unions bad. Welfare bad. Always the same with you.
You speak out of both sides of your mouth, Mark. And your politeness is a ruse. You troll liberal blogs all over Nashville presenting yourself as one thing when you’re something completely else. Being “the reasonable Republican” is a ruse. And I’m just going to leave it at that.
What an interesting back and forth conversationj, Southern belle. Well, one thing, Mr, Rogers is polite, LOL. Gads, I’ve been to some Republican sites…. O.O ” The hate… oh, the humanity of it all ! !
Mark is always polite. And boy, does he love to type. 😉
renxkyoko,
Are you suggesting that conservative blogs are less polite than liberal blogs? Daily Kos, for example, is awash in bile directed at everyone from the right to the moderate left. And if you want to see hate lifted to a level of art, check out some of the feminist blogs back in 2008 when women who supported Hillary Clinton went after women who supported Barak Obama.
You can contact Egalia over at ‘Tennessee Guerrilla Women’ for what it was like to try an keep peace during that donnybrook. Both sides have their hate-mongers and fools.
Sad thing is, Romney’s policies as governor created more of the class of citizen he denigrated. To think he wouldn’t continue on that same path as President would be fooling only oneself.
Understand, I don’t take exception to Romney’s statement on the basis of its accuracy: I think it was pretty accurate. I take exception on the fact that Romney is trying to pass himself off as something he is not (a conservative minded individual) when he made this statement. He said it, but simply does not believe it.
He’s a worse flip-flopper than Kerry.
“Sad thing is, Romney’s policies as governor created more of the class of citizen he denigrated. ”
Hey Usagi, I live in Massachusetts and all I can say is FUCK YOU. I know several people on Mass Health and do you know their ages? 2, 6, 8 and 9. If it weren’t for Mass Health for all I know they couldn’t even survive, and it’s not like it’s EASY for their mother to get Mass Health for them. She still has to fill out tons of forms and prove the need on a regular basis. Do you seriously think they should go out and “get a job?”
Can’t speak for Usagi but yes, that is what a sizeable chunk of the heartless Republican Party believes. Newt Gingrich, I believe, campaigned on removing child labor laws.
Because cheap labor is always the answer to every problem in the ownership class’ view.
Oh jeez, how could I forget. Well the 2-year-old would be a good employee. The 9-year-old, not so much.
“Hey Usagi, I live in Massachusetts and all I can say is FUCK YOU. I know several people on Mass Health and do you know their ages? 2, 6, 8 and 9. If it weren’t for Mass Health for all I know they couldn’t even survive, and it’s not like it’s EASY for their mother to get Mass Health for them.”
I live in TN, we have a similar program called TennCare. I know many people under the age of 18 that are on the program.
No, I do not suggest they get a job… that’s just cowardly baiting of you at best and intellectual dishonesty more likely than not.
I DO, however, suggest their parents get jobs. Never met a kid on TennCare whose parents worked. Never met a kid on TennCare whose parents were unable to work.
“But that is not the same thing as ‘winning’ the war on poverty. Winning means helping more people move out of poverty and take responsibility for their lives.”
WTF does that sentence even mean? Have you ever been on ANY sort of public assistance? If the answer is yes than your statement is simply a lie. If you haven’t then you have no fucking idea what you’re talking about.
Everything that Southern Beale says about GOP nostrums being complete bullshit is true, and you fucking well know it.
BTW, this whole, “Mark is sooooo polite” thing is unintentionally amusing. You know who else were really polite people? Well, DO YA? Eddie Haskell and TED FUCKING BUNDY!
Most of the middle class and working class has been without a raise since the start of the Bush II recovery. And the cracks are beginning to show.
Back in the 1930s, those who remained rich (or could put on the public face of remaining rich) decided that “keeping the doors open”, keeping people from rioting in the streets for food, keeping Americans from becoming even more interested in enlisting in actual, genuine Communist or Fascist political parties, keeping the riffraff from slipping into violence which was a threat to civil order, local government, and the public safety at large, was worth something to them.
That’s what I’d call “winning” then. I’d like to think we’ve learned from history a bit.
Thresher,
Wage stagnation goes back even farther. The main villain is the shift in America’s economy from exporter to importer. The failure of free trade advocates {and I was once one} is that we neglected to consider what would happen if other nations chose not to play by the same rules.
Japan, China and other nations pretended to support free trade but really adopted what could best be called neo-merchantilist policies. That and the lack of an energy policy and the bleeding of wealth to oil producing nations have badly crippled the ability of companies to raise wages. Toss in the perverse incentives of stock options which reward executives for short term gain and various other factors and you get no rise in wages.
Both parties deserve blame for this situation. For example, Republicans and Democrats {Clinton and Gore for example} championed free trade even when it was clear the there was nothing ‘free’ about it in other nations.
Until we restore our advantage in trade, it will be difficult to raise wages across the economy.
What an interesting thread filled with much anger but probably mostly filled with misunderstanding of each other.
As I read much more history in my old age, I realize that most all of us in this country live far better than any of our ancestors could ever dream about. The most important factor in an individuals determination is who are the parents. True today just like Europe 1200 AD. The difference is today people can climb out of their appointed station in life and advance. They can also piss away birth position and regress to a much humbler form of existence.
The political arena is currently filled with a tremendous number of micro battles that are really intended to be distraction from the real core problems we face as a nation. Namely, that Washington DC is being gamed by really bright people who want nothing more than wealth and power to gain more wealth or protect what they have. While we fight about issues of poverty, gay rights, abortion, etc.,etc., politicians are bought and sold via legislation that favors one over another. The focus must be that lobbying and private funding of campaigns needs to end. This will be the first step in purifying the thinking process of politicians. The amount of time that is used in fund raising is ridiculous. This is time that should be spent doing the work of governing. The future of this county depends on a blend of conservatism and liberal ideas because both sides have valid points in any argument. There is little doubt that the Right has been freaking out a little over the last few years about a black man who came into office like a messiah. The problem with the apocalyptic drum beat is that fewer and fewer people will watch Fox as they die of old age or turn it over to MSNBC.(check current ratings) Young people don’t even watch TV.
Most everyone in this country has their fingers in the American Pie, some a pinky some to their elbow. We need honest discussion and not distortions of reality to sort out the way. These discussions will only be fruitful if the money is pulled from Washington’s eyes. Mark, your work in welfare reform hopefully did bring improvement to the system. I’m sure that it was not easy. I worked as a juvenile probation officer for 10 years after college. I am a liberal who came to feel that mass sterilization at birth is the only way to get a handle on the problem of really fucked up people making more really fucked up people. Obviously, I never ran for office on this platform. It may sound ugly but it the most efficient way to deal with a big problem. And I mean everyone gets sterilized, rich, poor, black, brn, etc. We the people get to administer the test of who becomes fertile. I am smart enough to realize that there are very serious issues with this approach but come on people what we are doing now is far crazier. We incarcerate enough people to make the Chinese look like humanitarians.
I type very slowly and am self employed so I need to get back to work.
“What an interesting thread filled with much anger but probably mostly filled with misunderstanding of each other.”
Illuminate that point, please. If you’re referring to people who tell Mark Rogers that he’s an idiot or a liar, you’re tone trolling.
Nobody who stays on this blog and others like it for long is confused about the issue of power accruing to the those in power. For so long as the idiots who keep voting the Bushes, Bachmans, Rohrbachers, Romneys and their ilk into office, it will NEVER get better for the working man.
Tone Trolling? I had to Google it. I have only visited this sight a hand full of times and do enjoy the bluntness of our host so I would not say that I complain about the tone. I am not really complaining but am a little surprised at the attack on Mark who is a “working man” who chose to spend 6 years of his life trying to make a welfare system better. I’m not sure whether he accomplished anything but I seriously doubt that his efforts directly resulted in people showing up at the hosts church looking for help. Becoming destitute is actually quite easy and not always the fault of the victim but often the lack of a family support system. As the central family unit has faded the government has been called upon to take over. It will never be as efficient in identifying needs and delivering help as a family member, but that was then and this is now. As I mentioned earlier, the lives of our ancestors were generally far more miserable than we know. The Right’s panacea of the good ole days is just that.
We can not deny that many people abuse the government systems for just about every aspect of government. The doctor over bills medicare, the farmer overstates crop losses from drought to claim government insurance, the layed off worker doesn’t really look for a job because he wants a vacation. All of these happen. Certainly not with everyone and probably in only a minority of cases.
The above examples are common and should not be used as an argument against government programs. The program is trying to do what is right. The government has done nothing wrong here. It is the individuals who are gaming the system just like
lobbyists in DC but on a smaller scale.
Blaming the Right for WalMart? Every person who has ever bought anything there has voted with their money. And if you think the Left is all for the “working man” sorry for your delusion. I’m all for the right to collective bargain the problem is all those jobs are gone except the few in government settings.
Well, Mark is part of the Tennessee Republican Party establishment. When I attack him it’s because I’m suspicious of his motives and agenda. He claims to be one thing on liberal blogs, while promoting something else everywhere else. If he were really the reasonable, sane, responsible “compassionate conservative” he claims to be, he’d use his position on the TN GOP executive committee to walk the state party back from the edge of reason where it’s proudly made a home for the past 10 years. Tennessee is where the Republican Party has gone to die. This is the state where Republican state legislators pass resolutions against the UN’s “Agenda 21” (a tinfoil hat conspiracy cooked up by the John Birch Society), where legislation is passed against hand-holding because it’s a gateway sexual activity. Global warming, by law, is just “a theory” taught in our schools, evolution is on an equal footing with the Book of Genesis thanks to Tennessee Republicans. Our Republican legislature has actually passed a bill preventing a kid struggling with his or her sexual identity from talking to a teacher they may have grown close to in the course of the school year. This is immoral and insane. So am I angry at Mark? Hell, yeah.
He’s not an ordinary citizen voter of a conservative bent. He’s part of the problem.
another attempt to defend the hypocrisy and lies which have to be repeated endlessly, lest the facts get spoken. Mustn’t say the truth, ever or admit it exists. Just notice how they have learned how to be genteel and carefully elucidate such hallowed BS. Facts just get in the way and plain talk gives them away.
fascinating to see such “careful” words and phrases saying a whole lot of Republican talking points(lies). and they’ll never admit to anything factual from out point of view, either. always innuendo and distortions. can’t do that and keep the scam going.
.After all these years, we know the truth when we see or hear it. all these BS propaganda and “talking points” are just standard lies and stick out like sore thumbs.
amazing to think you only pay payroll/SS/ taxes on the first $106,000 you earn. make more than that and still only pay taxes on the first $106,000.00. sweet scam shows who pays what taxes and not. lol Good Scam to keep the Rich from paying their fair share for Social Security, and cry about how “broke” Social Security is. that’s the way the law is written. and who writes the laws, lobbyists for Business and the Rich, who
own Congress and the Supreme Court. but that’s old news.
as they say, all is fair in love and war. and we are being creamed. for 40 years now.
“I’m not sure whether he accomplished anything but I seriously doubt that his efforts directly resulted in people showing up at the hosts church looking for help.”
And yet, not being sure if he did any good, you assume that he’s telling the truth and people are just being mean to him? The results of legislation/regulation formulated and passed into law while Mr. Rogers was working there DID result in what Southern Beale points to as a result.
“Becoming destitute is actually quite easy and not always the fault of the victim but often the lack of a family support system. As the central family unit has faded the government has been called upon to take over.”
When a family becomes destitute (which is, btw, a sign that help is WAY too late in arriving) it’s all about how the central family unit has abdicated its position of responsibility, whereas when a WS investment firm, bank or manufacturer needs to be bailed out (Loooooooooooooooooong before the CEO and board of directors are showing up at Southern Beale’s church for help in feeding their families) its not because they’ve abdicated THEIR position of responsibility but because the “Invisible hand” has STOLEN their munny! Funny how that works, NOT.
The biggest single “entitlement” for the “Jobfakers” is that they are able to pay people less than a living wage, give them little or nothing in the way of benefits while displaying the “Smiley face” of Walmart and the image of the Old Glory rippling in the breeze as the rest of CorpratMurKKKa sends millions of jobs overseas.
Many more intelligent posters here than me. Perhaps one of you can explain to me why it is considered qualitatively different for a poor person to calculate the spread on receiving food stamps and living in public housing versus transportation cost, etc. to work a minimum wage job than an investment banker who uses sophisticated algorithms and speed of light programmed computer trading to exploit arbitrage opportunites created by porous market regulations.
One becmes a leech the other an icon of self determination. Why?
Randy:
Math is not my strong suit; I’m just gonna say that people who don’t have money are lazy, immoral and evil. It is the standard GOP nostrum and it has a certain economy. I mean, it’s still bullshit, but it SEEMS to make sense.
Ms Beal, Glad to provide a little entertainment for you. I figured after a few posts there was more going on than was apparent in the posts. And by the way I am familiar with TN politics as I live in far East TN. All I can say is Asheville is an hour away for me and you are stuck in the middle of the state.
Mr. Democommie, I suggest that you focus on developing a specific skill set that has relevance to the current space/time continuum that you find yourself in. It sounds like you have been passed up a few times by “others”.
Bernard, Usually a person given this name is at least handed a modicum of intelligence by their parents. I will however; be willing to write off your post to some good shit that you smoked just before…….
Randy, The difference is one supports to other.
Davey, Davey, Davey:
Thanks for not keeping us all in suspense, wondering when the office pool for, “How long will it take hte latest GOP sockpuppet here to out himself” was going to have a winner.
When you say:
“Mr. Democommie, I suggest that you focus on developing a specific skill set that has relevance to the current space/time continuum that you find yourself in. It sounds like you have been passed up a few times by “others”.”
I must admit that I have NO fucking idea what you’re talking about. That makes it unanimous.
SB,
“he’d use his position on the TN GOP executive committee to walk the state party back from the edge of reason where it’s proudly made a home for the past 10 years.”
Where did you get the idea that I am on the state executive committee? I was appointed to fill a vacancy on the Davidson County Ex Comm around six or seven years ago but I have never been a member of the State Executive Committee. I have never even run for EX Comm.
“He claims to be one thing on liberal blogs, while promoting something else everywhere else.”
If you have read anything of my comments on other sites then you know that I have been very critical of the excesses of the far far right. One does not have to be an extremist to believe that excessive regulation hurts businesses and consumers. The issue is getting rational people on both sides to cooperate on where the point between necessary and excessive exists.
As for my more partisan comments, they don’t contradict my criticisms of the far right or deny my belief in the need for a viable center in both parties. There is, after all, legitimate room for debate on all sorts of issues related to domestic and foreign policy and other subjects to boot.
“where legislation is passed against hand-holding because it’s a gateway sexual activity.”
That is actually not the meaning of the bill but lazy media coverage. Not that the bill isn’t flawed but the Tennessean and the Scene want one of the sponsors defeated so they intentionally twisted the coverage of the bill.
“Our Republican legislature has actually passed a bill preventing a kid struggling with his or her sexual identity from talking to a teacher they may have grown close to in the course of the school year. This is immoral and insane. So am I angry at Mark? Hell, yeah.”
Two point here. I opposed that legislation by talking to legislators who are friends.
Second, the other option for governing Tennessee is the party that trashed the state constitution with the blatantly unconstitutional ‘judicial selection commission,’ a body that existed for decades without ever having more than a token East Tennessean, disenfranchising 1/3 of the state. The same party gave us a government so corrupt {Blanton, Butcher, Rocky Top, Tennessee Waltz, the Fords etc} that New Jersey and Louisiana and Illinois started to look honest. The same party that for decades poured hundreds of millions of dollars into infrastructure in rural West Tennessee {even as the population there declined} while rapidly growing Middle Tennessee got little and East TN continued to get less. The same party that controlled education policy in the state since Reconstruction and therefore bears responsibility for the present state condition on schools in TN.
So if you ask me whether I want a Republican Party that I believe will return to the Values of Howard Baker and Ben Atchley and Bud Gilbert or a party that is still dominated by the lackeys of Jimmy Naifeh, that is an easy one. In no small part because as more new people migrate to Tennessee, I believe they will opt for the moderate conservative approach of Harwell and Sargent and Haslam.
You might ask Rosalind Kurita about how the current Democratic leadership treated her. And one of the people responsible for disenfranchising her voters and stealing her election is now the Democratic candidate for a state house seat.
Or talk to Senator Beverly Marerro about how the Democrats treated her in redistricting. In other words, the TN Democrats show less potential for reform that the Republicans.
Whatever, Mark. If I’m wrong about which exec. committee you served on, my bad. Apologies. But you do like to troll liberal blogs for some bizarre reason, and you do give lip service to presenting yourself as some kind of “moderate” Republican, yet when push comes to shove you always come back on the side of “but Democrats do it too,” or, “Democrats are worse…” or, “but this awful Republican thing wasn’t really that awful because of the liberal media …” Just as you did in this comment here.
I have to wonder why you troll liberal blogs to begin with. Is it just to be annoying? It’s not like you’re going to win any converts here. Do you troll Conservative blogs to try to push your Republican brethren back from the edge of craziness? Of course not. I find your behavior bizarre and trollish.
And thanks for concern-trolling over Rosalind Kurita and Beverly Marerro. That a TNGOP activist is trying to gin up some more ill feeling among state Democrats is a shocker. /sarcasm
As I’ve said a thousand times already, there is no such thing as a moderate Republican, not in Tennessee and not nationally. Haslam may have campaigned as a moderate but he rubber-stamped every crackpot wingnutty piece of legislation the radical fringe presented him. So we might as well have had a Gov. Zach Wamp for all Haslam’s “moderation” did the people of Tennessee.
What’s funny about that survey I took that showed me to be so far to the left? It said I agreed with the rest of Tennessee voters close to 60% of the time. Tennessee voters aren’t nearly as conservative as our legislature is, that’s a fact. The only reason Republicans are in charge of this state’s politics is because our Democrats are anemic, rudderless, have poor leadership and are poorly funded. But it won’t always be that way.
Anyway, I’m done with you.
SB,
“yet when push comes to shove you always come back on the side of “but Democrats do it too,” or, “Democrats are worse…” or, “but this awful Republican thing wasn’t really that awful because of the liberal media …” Just as you did in this comment here.”
So when Democrats do bad things that doesn’t count? Bad actions are only bad when Republicans are responsible? There is the basis for a really useful dialogue. And, yes, sometimes the liberal media {and the Tennessean is legendary for this} does distort some stories for political advantage. Do you think Fox News invented the practice?
Regarding Senators Kurita and Marerro, I don’t particularly care that the Democrats screwed them. My point had nothing to do with “concern-trolling” {how you love that word} but to make the very simple point that the TN Democrats are unfit to govern because their history is one of uninterrupted corruption while I believe that the Republicans can be moved back to the center-right. You may certainly disagree with my analysis of the Republicans but no honest person can say that the TN Democrats deserve to regain power.
I’ll leave it to Southern Beale to deconstruct Mr. Rogers’ assertions about the dems in TN doing all of the things he accuses them of, here; she lives there and knows TN politics far better than I do.
If Mark Rogers was the person he claims to be, he’d not be a member of the GOP of 2012. The GOP is being run by its lunatic mainstream and anyone who goes along with it is aiding and abetting the insanity.
“If you have read anything of my comments on other sites then you know that I have been very critical of the excesses of the far far right.”
Did you actually write this and think that it would be seen as a positive. Mainstream GOPGroupthink is pretty fucking far right. The “far, far right” is basically a group of fucking nazis. Thanks for your concern.